Following Waters Podcast
Following Waters is a podcast brought to you by ACA Public Policy Chief Brett Mayer – about the people, places, and stories that move us – literally and figuratively – through the world of paddling. Each episode brings listeners into the current of conversation with paddlers from all walks of life, exploring not just where they paddle, but why. From personal stories of adventure and discovery to the quiet moments that keep us returning to the water, Following Waters captures the spirit of a diverse and passionate community.
The show dives into origin stories of paddlers – from first strokes to lifelong commitments – and examines the cultural and environmental forces that shape our waterways. Episodes also tackle pressing policy and stewardship topics, amplifying voices on the frontlines of access, conservation, and education. Whether it’s a grassroots river cleanup, a solo expedition across remote waters, or a conversation about the politics of put-in points, Following Waters offers an honest and inspiring look at what connects us to paddling – and to each other.
It’s a podcast for anyone who’s ever launched into something unknown, followed the pull of the river, or found clarity on the water. Visit the podcast home page.
Episode 1 - A Class V Life with Bobby Miller: Paddling, Teaching, and Finding Purpose in the Flow
What drives someone to spend their life navigating whitewater? In this premiere episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with professional paddler, teacher, father, and outdoor educator Bobby Miller to explore that question from the inside out.
Bobby has been paddling Class V rivers for over two decades and is known for his smooth, powerful style on steep creeks and big water alike. But behind the drops and lines is a story about balance—between risk and responsibility, family and freedom, and adrenaline and awareness.
Together, Brett and Bobby dive into:
- How Bobby got into paddling and what kept him in it
- How he balances kayaking with parenting and teaching
- The evolution of East Coast whitewater culture
- What it means to live a full life on and off the river
Whether you’re a paddler, parent, or just someone trying to live with purpose, this episode offers deep insight into how the river can shape who we become.
Episode 2 - The Adam Herzog Story: Kickflips, Currents, and Intentions
From skate parks to the powerful flow of the Stikine River, Adam Herzog shares how intentional preparation and a love for place shaped his journey as a paddler, racer, and wilderness medicine educator.
Featured Guest: Adam Herzog
Adam Herzog started out skateboarding in Western North Carolina before discovering paddling in his teens. Over the years, that transition blossomed into a paddling career defined by discipline, edge-of-your-seat adventure, and deep purpose. After racing the Green Race annually for over two decades, he ultimately fulfilled a lifelong aspiration: running the legendary Stikine River, often dubbed the “Mount Everest of kayaking” .
Adam’s pursuits extend beyond the water—he’s a paramedic, trauma nurse, and wilderness medicine educator, known for his “Close Calls” storytelling in American Whitewater, exploring near-miss rescues and lessons in risk management. He also teaches via NOLI Learning (kayaking and rescue training)—find more at NOLILearn.org
Follow his journey and daily reflections on Instagram: @ZogTraining
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
- How Adam’s skateboarding roots led to a paddling obsession.
- A behind-the-scenes look at training for the Green Race and staying injury-free.
- The physical and mental preparation for paddling the iconic Stikine River.
- Lessons learned from injuries and rescue scenarios as a trauma nurse.
- His philosophy around teaching, safety, and passing paddling on to the next generation.
Episode 3 - The Gordon Dalton Story: Maps, Memories, and the Currents that Shape Us
From the rivers of Virginia to backcountry creeks across the country, Gordon Dalton’s life is defined by paddling, wilderness discovery, and thoughtful storytelling.
About Gordon Dalton
Gordon is a Virginia-based paddler whose passion for rivers began with a canoe in 1989 and his first kayak in 1992. Since then, he’s explored countless creeks across the Blue Ridge and American West, working as a video kayaker in the late 1990s on rivers like the New and Gauley. Along the way, he helped pioneer and document many of Virginia’s now-classic creek runs, blending adventure with preservation and education.
He’s the longtime organizer of the Goshen Pass downriver race on the Maury River—started in 2007 as a grassroots competition and grown into a beloved spring gathering, organized by Gordon and built on low-ego, shared paddling culture.
Gordon balances his passion for rivers with a day job as a speech therapist, which allows him summers exploring western snowmelt creeks. When he’s not paddling, he shares his discoveries through photography, guidebook contributions, and storytelling—always wrestling with what to share and what to leave undiscovered.
Check out Gordon’s instagram: @gdaltonphoto
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
- Gordon’s early inspirations—what made him fall in love with paddling.
- Behind the scenes of working as a video kayaker on iconic rivers.
- How he discovered and documented Virginia creeks and brought them into the paddling community.
- The origin story of Goshen Pass Race, its grassroots ethos, and why it endures as a place-based tradition.
- Gordon’s ongoing tension between documenting adventure and protecting wild runs from overexposure.
- Reflections on the importance of working together to protect access.
Episode 4 - The Anna Levesque Story: Redefining Success and Connection in Paddlesports
Join us for a powerful conversation with paddling and mindset pioneer Anna Levesque, who works to bring a more holistic path to paddling culture through coaching, yoga, breath work, and cultivating awareness.
About Anna Levesque
Anna is a Canadian paddler, former World Freestyle Kayak medalist, and author of Yoga for Paddling. She founded Mind Body Paddle, blending kayaking, yoga, Ayurveda, and mental agility coaching to empower paddlers—especially women—and has been named one of the “most inspirational paddlers alive” by Canoe & Kayak Magazine .
Anna hosts The Discomfort Zone podcast, helping listeners navigate fear and embrace discomfort as a path to growth and flow. She’s interviewed on other shows, including For the Love Of podcast, discussing fear, confidence, and mindset strategies.
Explore her work at annalevesque.com and follow her on Instagram: @annaclevesque
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
- How she moved from being overlooked as a female paddler to pioneering women’s coaching in kayaking
- The emotional and practical journey behind producing the first female-focused instructional DVD
- Her personal system: the 5 Tenets of River Running and mental agility tools for paddling and life .
- Why she integrates yoga, Ayurveda, and breathwork into paddling coaching
- How Mind Body Paddle has reshaped paddling culture toward inclusivity and emotional resilience
- Balancing flow, fear, and identity on the water and off
Episode 5 -The Steve-O McKone Story: Finding Flow and Community the Calleva Way
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with Steve “Steve-O” McKone, director of the Calleva River School in Poolesville, Maryland. Steve-O shares his journey from his first paddle on the George Washington Canal at 19, to becoming a lifelong paddler, teacher, and community builder.
Together, Brett and Steve explore:
- The moment kayaking first captured Steve-O’s imagination and soul.
- How Calleva River School cultivates grit, resilience, and confidence in paddlers of all ages.
- Stories of challenge, growth, and joy that come from a life spent on the water.
- Steve-O’s vision for building community and inspiring the next generation of paddlers in the D.C.–Maryland–Virginia region.
- Reflections on why paddling is more than just sport—it’s a way of shaping life and meaning.
Brett also shares a personal update about returning from the Gauley River and dedicates this episode to the memory of paddler Pat Miljour.
Episode 6 - The Sofi Reinoso Story: Carving a Path from Veracruz, Mexico to the Olympic Stage
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with Sofi Reinoso, a two-time Olympian, Pan American Games medalist, and the first Mexican canoe slalom paddler to win a medal at an ICF event.
Sofi shares her journey from growing up around the rivers of Veracruz, Mexico, to competing on the world’s biggest stage in Tokyo 2020 and Paris 2024. Along the way, she talks about what first drew her to paddling, the challenges of training with limited resources, and how the river continues to shape her vision for life on and off the water.
This conversation dives into the lived experience of being a paddler at the highest level, highlighting the four phases of the whitewater journey — initiating, deepening, imagining, and appreciating — and how Sofi’s story embodies each one.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
- Sofi’s first encounters with the rivers of Tlapacoyan and how she got her start in kayaking
- The mentors and community who helped her deepen her skills and identity as a paddler
- The challenges of representing Mexico internationally and training without consistent support
- The meaning and possibility she’s discovered through paddling — on the water and in life
- Her reflections on gratitude, responsibility, and being a role model for the next generation of paddlers
Episode 7 - Giving Back to the River with Jon Stamper
What does it mean to give back to the waterways that have given us so much?
In this episode, Jon Stamper—River Cleanup Coordinator at MountainTrue and lifelong paddler—joins Brett to explore the intersection of rivers, community, and stewardship. Together they reflect on the one-year anniversary of Hurricane Helene and what stewardship and resilience looks like in the region.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Why the health of our rivers is directly tied to the health of our communities
Practical ways paddlers and outdoor enthusiasts can get involved in watershed stewardship
How Hurricane Helene changed the landscape for environmental advocacy in Western North Carolina
The importance of local action and why giving back starts close to home
Why Listen
If you’ve ever wondered how to deepen your relationship with the waterways you love, this conversation will inspire you to see stewardship not as an obligation, but as an extension of joy and gratitude, and a central part to our experience as paddlers.
Episode 8 - The Lisa Raleigh Story: Finding Our Link with the River
Today’s guest is Lisa Raleigh, Executive Director of RiverLink, a nonprofit based in Asheville that champions the health, accessibility, and resilience of the French Broad River and its watershed.
A trained geologist and hydrologist with a PhD in Environmental Science from the University of Oklahoma, Lisa’s path has wound through nonprofit advancement, outdoor industry communications, and community leadership. Since arriving at RiverLink in 2021, she has guided the organization through major milestones — from the opening of Karen Cragnolin Park to the evolving role RiverLink now plays in post-Hurricane Helene recovery efforts.
In this conversation, Lisa and host Brett Mayer explore the intersections of science, story, and stewardship: how rivers shape community identity, how resilience is being redefined in a changing climate, and how each of us can help create healthier waterways.
Episode Highlights
- Lisa’s early experiences in Montana and the path that led her to study geology and hydrology
- Lessons learned from decades in nonprofit leadership and community engagement
- The opening of Karen Cragnolin Park as a symbol of restoration and access along the French Broad
- How Hurricane Helene revealed both vulnerabilities and collective strength across Western North Carolina
- The evolving concept of “making room for rivers” in the age of climate change
- Finding personal balance, hope, and renewal in the work of resilience
About Lisa Raleigh
Lisa is a scientist, fundraiser, and outdoor enthusiast who brings a lifelong love of nature and a deep commitment to environmental and social justice to her leadership at RiverLink. Before joining the organization, she spent more than a decade as the Director of Advancement at Colorado Rocky Mountain School, co-founded Backbone Media, and worked as a nonprofit fundraising consultant.
A Montana native who lived in Colorado for 30 years before relocating to Asheville, Lisa is also a trail runner, climber, road biker, and proud mother of two daughters, Sunni and Belle.
Episode 9 - Buffy Burge: Reflections from a Life Lived on the River
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with Buffy Burge — a pioneering whitewater kayaker, five-time Gore Canyon Champion, and the 2003 Green Race winner — whose story is equal parts adventure and reflection.
From her early days discovering rivers at summer camp, to the bold expeditions that defined her twenties — including the Middle Kings, the Waitaha Gorge, and remote runs in Bhutan — Buffy helped open doors for women in the whitewater world.
Then, life shifted. Motherhood, family, and time away from the sport gave her a new relationship to risk and identity. Twenty years later, she returned — not to reclaim old glory, but to share the experience with her teenage son as they became the first mother-son duo to race the Green Narrows together.
In this episode:
- How Buffy first found whitewater and what drew her into Class V terrain
- Lessons from pioneering all-female expeditions in the early 2000s
- Why stepping away from the river changed her perspective on performance
- What the river teaches about flow, identity, and belonging
Buffy Burge is a whitewater kayaker, extreme racer, and mother of three living in Fletcher, NC. A five-time Gore Canyon champion and 2003 Green Race winner, she’s paddled in over ten countries and helped lead early all-female expeditions in New Zealand and Bhutan. After two decades away from competition, she returned in 2023 to race the Green River Narrows alongside her teenage son — reminding us all that courage and curiosity don’t have an age limit.
Episode 10 - The Sam Drevo Story: eNRG Kayaking, Rios Lodge & the Path of a River Steward
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with longtime paddler, competitor, educator, and conservation entrepreneur Sam Drevo. From his early beginnings in Maryland at Valley Mill Camp to winning the Gorge Games, founding eNRG Kayaking, teaching thousands of new paddlers, and helping steward Rios Lodge on Costa Rica’s Pacuare River, Sam’s life has been defined by rivers in every way imaginable.
We explore the arc of his whitewater journey—competition, teaching, guiding, business-building, river cleanups, stewardship, loss, resilience, and what it means to dedicate a life to paddlesports and the health of the places we love.
In This Episode, Sam Shares:
- The river moments that shaped him most
- What it felt like to build a paddlesports business from the ground up
- How competition informed his approach to teaching and safety
- Why he believes paddlers have a unique responsibility to steward their rivers
- How the 2020 wildfires changed his life, his priorities, and his work
- What makes Rios Lodge a model for eco-tourism and cultural conservation
- His advice for the next generation of paddlers, guides, and river leaders
Sam Drevo is a veteran whitewater athlete, ACA instructor trainer, Rescue 3 educator, river conservationist, and founder of eNRG Kayaking, one of the most widely recognized paddlesports schools in the Pacific Northwest. He competes, coaches, teaches, and advocates for rivers globally, and is part of the stewardship team behind Rios Lodge on Costa Rica’s Pacuare River—continuing the conservation-first legacy of the late Rafael Gallo. Sam also serves on the board of We Love Clean Rivers, a nonprofit transforming recreation into river restoration through community cleanups and watershed partnerships.
Episode 11 - Jed Hinkley: the Olympics, Youth Development, and the Evolution and Future of Competitive Paddlesports
In this episode of Following Waters, Brett sits down with Jed Hinkley — Olympian, multi-discipline athlete, and national sport administrator — for a conversation that bridges personal journey with the future of competitive paddle sports in the United States.
Jed reflects on his athletic beginnings as a six-year-old alpine racer, his transition to Nordic combined by age twelve, and his rise to represent the United States in the 2002 Winter Olympics. He shares memories from World Junior Championships, insights from years of elite athletic development, and the lessons he carried into his later work supporting sport pathways at USA Nordic and now at the American Canoe Association.
Together, Brett and Jed explore the challenges and opportunities in building a stronger pipeline for young paddlers. They discuss infrastructure needs, coaching development, the vital role of community-based programs, and the often-overlooked connection between recreational paddling and competitive pathways. Jed also highlights the huge — and largely untapped — potential within summer camps as entry points for developing future athletes.
This episode offers a thoughtful, forward-looking perspective on how to grow the sport’s competitive base while honoring the joy and culture of paddling that draw people to the water in the first place.
What We Cover
- Jed’s early athletic life and transition through multiple winter sports
- His journey to becoming a 2002 Olympian in Nordic combined
- Lessons from coaching, development, and sport administration
- How USA Nordic shaped his understanding of athlete pipelines
- His current role at the American Canoe Association
- Why competitive paddling in the U.S. faces unique challenges
- The opportunity to build stronger youth pathways and coaching systems
- Bridging rec-focused paddling communities with competitive programs
- The overlooked potential of summer camps as talent incubators
- What a sustainable, intentional future for U.S. paddlesports could look like
About Jed Hinkley
Jed Hinkley is an Olympian, coach, and sport development leader whose career spans elite athletic performance and national-level program building. After competing in the 2002 Winter Olympics in Nordic combined, Jed moved into coaching and sport administration, supporting youth development, national pipelines, and high-performance structures at USA Nordic before transitioning to the American Canoe Association. His work focuses on strengthening competitive pathways, expanding access, and building systems that help young athletes thrive.
Episode 12 - The Brad Burden Story: the Long Road Back to the River
In this episode, Brett sits down with Brad Burden, whose whitewater story spans early passion, professional intensity, a two-decade hiatus, and an unexpected return that has brought new meaning, joy, and connection to the second half of life.
Brad opens up about his formative days paddling at the NOC, his early rise as a professional kayaker, and the four-year push that culminated in a near-miss incident on the Slave River—a moment that signaled a deeper emotional and mental exhaustion. What followed was a conscious step away from whitewater and eventually a full transition into a stable and grounded life as a high school teacher, basketball coach, husband, and father.
Twenty years later, another shift in Brad’s professional life became the catalyst to rediscover a piece of himself he’d set aside. With humility and curiosity, he stepped back into the whitewater world—beginning with a return to the Gauley, where a swim on Lost Paddle reminded him both of who he used to be and who he is now.
Brad shares how the next generation of paddlers welcomed him in with open arms, how community has shaped this re-entry, and why he feels compelled now to contribute, mentor, and reconnect through his new show, B Flow Sessions, a podcast dedicated to stories and people who shaped his life on the river.
This is a reflective, inspiring episode about going hard, evolving identity, renewal, belonging, and the ways rivers have a way of calling us back.
What We Cover
- Brad’s early years at the NOC and journey into professional kayaking
- The emotional toll and burnout that followed a hard four-year push
- The near-accident on the Slave River that changed everything
- Why Brad stepped away from whitewater for 20 years
- Building a new life: teaching, coaching, marriage, and family
- The moment he realized he wanted to return
- Coming back to the Gauley — and swimming Lost Paddle after two decades off the river
- The generosity and welcoming spirit of the new generation of paddlers
- The creation of B Flow Sessions and Brad’s desire to give back
- How adventure, community, and self-understanding evolve in mid-life
About Brad Burden
Brad Burden is a former professional kayaker, educator, coach, and storyteller whose decades-spanning relationship with whitewater has taken many shapes. After an intense period of professional paddling in the early 2000s, Brad stepped away from the sport for 20 years to build a career in teaching and basketball coaching, while focusing on family and personal growth. Recently, a major life transition brought him back to rivers with fresh perspective and renewed joy. Brad now hosts B Flow Sessions, a podcast exploring the people and stories who shaped his paddling journey and continue to inspire his return to the whitewater community.
Episode 13 - The Risa Shimoda Story: Athlete, Icon, and the Great Connector
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer speaks with Risa Shimoda about her path through whitewater paddling and into river conservation leadership. Risa shares how she learned to kayak as a young adult in the Ohio and gradually developed her skills, becoming part of the early wave of women pushing into more difficult whitewater.
She reflects on landmark experiences including pioneering women’s descents in places like the Niagara Gorge, and how deeper engagement in the sport led her toward work in the paddlesports industry with Perception Kayaks. The conversation then traces her transition into conservation, including serving as the first Executive Director of American Whitewater, and her current role as Executive Director of the River Management Society. The episode focuses on how long-term involvement in paddling can evolve into leadership, advocacy, and stewardship.
Episode 14 - Isaac Hull: Growing Up with the River
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer sits down with whitewater kayaker Isaac Hull, whose relationship with paddling began unusually early. Sponsored by the age of ten, Isaac effectively grew up alongside the river, learning not only how to paddle but how to navigate identity, expectations, and opportunity within the sport from a young age.
The conversation traces how that early immersion shaped Isaac’s development as a paddler and as a person—from formative trips and long days on the water to the realities of growing up sponsored in a relatively small, tight-knit community. Isaac reflects on how early exposure influenced his approach to risk, progression, and longevity in the sport.
Looking forward, the discussion explores how Isaac’s relationship with kayaking continues to evolve, what drives him now, and how time, perspective, and experience have reshaped his goals.
Check out Isaac’s instagram page to check out some of the drops we talked about in this episode, including Young’s River Falls, and the log dodge in Mexico.
Episode 15 - Hattie Johnson: the Legal Right to Float in Colorado
In this episode of Following Waters, host Brett Mayer speaks with Hattie Johnson of American Whitewater about her roots as a paddler and conservationist—and then dives deep into one of the most pressing river access issues in the country right now: the legal right to float in Colorado.
Hattie shares how her personal relationship with rivers led her into conservation work, before walking listeners through the history of river access law in Colorado, how we arrived at the current moment, and why long-standing assumptions about paddlers’ rights are being challenged. Together, they unpack the evolving legal landscape, what recent conflicts mean for paddlers across the state, and why this issue extends far beyond Colorado’s borders.
The conversation is both a primer and a call to awareness—helping paddlers understand the legal, historical, and political context of river access, while clarifying how individuals and communities can stay informed, engaged, and involved in protecting the ability to float rivers now and into the future.
Topics include:
- Hattie’s pathway to rivers as both a paddler and conservationist
- The history of the right to float in Colorado
- Why river access is being challenged now
- What’s changed—and what’s at stake for paddlers
- How American Whitewater is responding
- Practical ways paddlers can stay engaged and support access efforts
This is a timely and important conversation for anyone who cares about rivers, access, and the future of paddling in the United States.
Episode 16 - Bill Endicott: Fascination for the Process
In this episode of Following Waters, we sit down with Bill Endicott, one of the most influential figures in the history of American paddlesports.
Bill’s impact on the sport is hard to overstate. As longtime head coach of the U.S. Canoe/Kayak Slalom Team, he guided American athletes to Olympic medals and international success, helping elevate U.S. slalom onto the world stage. But this conversation goes far beyond results and podiums.
We explore Bill’s formula for success—a philosophy rooted not in outcome, but in deep fascination with the process. Bill shares how his coaching has always centered on helping athletes clearly see a path forward: seeing what’s possible, believing it’s attainable, and then committing fully to achieving it.
Throughout the episode, Bill reflects on:
- What truly separates good athletes from great ones
- The role of patience, repetition, and trust in long-term development
- How belief is built—not demanded—in high-performance environments
- Why sustained success comes from clarity of purpose, not pressure
This is a conversation about leadership, vision, and the quiet discipline required to build excellence over time. Whether you’re an athlete, coach, educator, or someone interested in how people reach their potential, Bill’s insights offer rare perspective from decades at the highest level of sport.
A must-listen episode with a monumental figure whose influence continues to shape paddling in the U.S. and beyond.
